Why do m8 ap shells suck so bad?

[BotaBing]

I just hit a panzer with 10-12 direct shots from AP shells on an M-8 and it barely made him smoke.

[brady]

bGeneraly thay are not effectave aganst the front, only the side and rear can generate kills, at least in my experance. Also I ave found M8 AP rounds to be compleatly inefectave aganst the US halftracts, the 50 cal MG is more capable aganst them!

[eddiek]

Where did you hit the PNZR?
I've found my best "kill zone" on the PNZR and Osty to be dead six.  The M8 cannon is only 37mm, and it doesn't have the punch of the Osty's cannon, so anywhere other than rear quarter shots or dead six shots are risky as hell.  Kinda BS when you consider the Osty is also just 37mm, but it fires a "hybrid" mix of AP and HE shells I guess.  I find Ostys can knock out a tank a helluva lot quicker than the tank can kill them if they stand toe to toe.
Anway, the Greyhound's forte is not firepower, it is speed; use it to stalk your prey, use ground cover as much as possible (the M8 blends in better than either the Osty or the PNZR IMO), get behind the bastage and open fire.  ZOOM in as you come up behind him......some drivers have taken to driving with their turret facing the rear after you pop them a few times in your lil ole M8, so be careful.  If their turret is facing you, slow down to first gear, jump in the turret get off a couple shots in his ass, then run like hell.  Even the MG on the PNZR turret will kill you, the AH M8 is made of cardboard armor, ain't worth a damn.

[LtHans]

37mm AP is not strong enough to penetrate the armor of a regular tank.  Your not seeing things.  That happens in real life like that.

In tank warfare it isn't attrition, but more of a yes/no type of thing.  It either will or will NOT penetrate.  Hitting it again and again is just wasting ammo.

The only thing the 37mm AP ammo ought to work against is the halftracks, which only have enough armor to stop rifle rounds.


However, I will say that this is first a flight sim and the tank warfare section isn't modeled accurate enough to be totally sure or reliable about anything.

[Tac]

M8 main gun isnt usefull unless you hitting another M8. Its better to take an M16 than an M8.. you get 3 more 50 cals to hit with, more speed and more ammo and more ARMOR (bs aye).

But then again, why take anything BUT a flaktank? Its all in one.

[Beefcake]

Tac the M8 is faster than the M16, however it does a take a long time to get going, unlike the M16/3

[Urchin]

I think it was made useless to fit in well with the rest of the vehicle.  

You can kill a flakpansie or a Panzer in 3-4 shots if you hit them in the side or rear from less than 200 yards away or so.  Of course, they can kill you with the pintle-mounted MG from a good 1,000 yards.  Or in the case of the flakpansie a near miss at 4500 yards should probably do the trick just fine, although the farthest I've ever had one kill me at was about 2,300 yards.  With a single hit of course.  I know the range because 8 37mm AP shells bounced off of him.  

.50 caliber can kill an M8 with a short burst at 1,200 to 1,300 yards at any angle, in my experience.  An M8 going head to head with an M3 has a better than even shot at ending up dead.

[wulfie14]

M8 MA is a 37L53? (if memory serves?).

Basically, it's a very high velocity 37mm gun (same gun as the Stuart).

The smaller the shell, the less penetration ability it maintains at longer ranges.

In other words, where a 75L48 AP shell might have a fairly 'balanced' penetration curve (with a spike in penetration ability at close ranges when firing tungsten core ammunition), a solid shot 37L53 AP round is going to penetrate really well out to about 300 meters or so and after that penetration is going to drop off very very rapidly.

Frontally, a 37L53 would have to be at ~100 meters range to have any chance of damaging a Pz IVH with AP rounds...and even then the chance of scoring a 'mission kill' vs. a Pz IVH is pretty slim.

Check a couple of webpages and/or books and compare the average penetration of 37L53 AP at 200 meters+ vs. the effective frontal armor thickness (i.e. including slope) of a Pz IVH.

Mike/wulfie, etc.

[Tac]

you just wait till you see your M8 AP / HE rounds BOUNCE off the LVT's (and ive had several bounce off M3's too!). Thats to die for. I kill faster with the .50 cal in the M8 than with the main gun.

[Apar]

WIth KE AP rounds it is not the calliber that counts, it is the L/D ratio and the hit velocity. In Modern Tank AP rounds you'll see long high velocity penetrators of hard material (the harder the better, but not brittle because the penetrator may not break up, DU or tungsten alloys are used nowadays)

[SKurj]

M8 HE shells kill osties and Pz's from dead 6 at under 1k...


SKurj

[Urchin]

Never gotten a kill on a flakpansie or Panzer with the M8s HE shell.  At any range, including point blank.  They just bounce off (I've shot them at under 200 yards and had several rounds bounce off).  The HE shells can kill M16s and M3s in 2-3 hits usually, whereas I've pumped 10 AP rounds into an m16 before it finally saw me and killed me at around 800 yards.  I've also hit an M3 with 7 AP rounds and had it drive merrily along its way.

[chunder']

I've had halfway decent luck in the M8 versus all the vehicles in this game.  The trick to taking out ostwinds and panzers is to sneak around their flank and hit them on the side or rear from close range; I usually aim for the turret first to hopefully take out their gun.  Only once have I ever taken out a panzer with HE and I doubt I'll ever be able to do it again.  LVTs are the worst for me since it seems like they are impervious from the front and they soak up AP and HE rounds like a sponge on the sides and rear.  As for halftracks, if you have HE then you should have no problems... if you have AP the best thing to do is hit one of the front wheels while they're moving and hope they roll.

[wulfie14]

Apar,

I was refering to caliber of gun effect on velocity.

A 75L48 gun (Pz IVH, StuG IIIG) is going to have better AP penetration than a 75L24 gun (Pz IVF1, StuG IIIB).

Length of barrel, velocity, penetration are all tied together.

Mike/wulfie, etc.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by wulfie14
Apar,

I was refering to caliber of gun effect on velocity.

A 75L48 gun (Pz IVH, StuG IIIG) is going to have better AP penetration than a 75L24 gun (Pz IVF1, StuG IIIB).

Length of barrel, velocity, penetration are all tied together.

Mike/wulfie, etc.

Depending on ammo, yes.

If you fire HE or HEAT (is that modelled?) your barrel length, and thus velocity of projectile means exactly squat.